Bill to Abolish Long-Gun Registry in Canada Passes Second Reading in the House of Commons
Yesterday’s sitting in the House of Commons to scrap the long-gun registry, which currently documents the whereabouts of over 7 million shotguns and rifles, is absolutely terrifying. Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan stated that “the long-gun registry is very efficient at harassing law-abiding farmers and outdoor enthusiasts, while wasting billions of taxpayer dollars”, while a study by the auditor general in 2006 stated that eliminating the long-gun portion of the registry will only save around $3 million a year. The RCMP also stated that in 2007 the registry was used more than 2.5 million times.
Let’s get down to it. if you are going to own a gun then you should be responsible enough to register it. And if you have nothing to hide from law enforcement then you shouldn’t care if the police inquire about your gun when they are investigating crimes. I am sure that you can find stats saying that firearm deaths have decreased since the inception of the registry, that most are hand gun related and that therefore the registration of long-guns isn’t needed. But honestly I just don’t care. If you want to own a gun and don’t want to register it – move to Texas.
As the bill was introduced as a private members bill, allowing opposition members to break party lines, support was secured by Liberal and NDP members representing northern and rural areas. Somehow that seems so incredibly stereotypical. I am appalled that this bill looks set to pass, as it has made it through its second reading and is heading to committee.
Just a few stats worth pointing out:
- The gun registry was created in response to the shooting at Ecole Polytechnique in 1989 which left 14 people dead. The weapon of choice was semi-automatic rifle.
- Since then there have been an additional 5 school shootings in Canada, one of which was conducted with a sawed-off .22 calibre rifle in 1999 at W.R. Myers in Taber, AB which left one student dead.
- Since 1989 there have been over 60 school shootings in the United States, most notably Columbine School in Littleton, CO which was conducted with a collection of rifles, shotguns and handguns and left 13 people dead, and Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va which was conducted with handguns and left 33 people dead.
Sorry, but that is scary stuff. I don’t have statistics on how the change in long-gun homicides have changed in Canada, no real numbers, but according to the Coalition for Gun Control, suicides and murders of women have decreased.
Now all of that being said, it has cost a lot of money to operate the registry – an embarrassing amount – that much I am willing to admit. I am just not comfortable with the idea of abolishing the long-gun registry.
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Tags: Crime, Gun Registry, guns, house of commons
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November 7th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Thanks for sharing your opinion Alison. Good article. However, I think it would add much value to your argument if you incorporated some credible statistics to back up your case.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Just as it would have helped politicians make a decision in a free vote if pertinent information had not been withheld by the conservative party: http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2009/11/scrum-theatre-who-wants-to-know-what-peter-van-loan-finds-interesting-about-the-firearms-commissione.html . Really it should be indication enough that the Association of Chiefs of Police want the registry to stay. How can one believe that a government (any of the parties) cares about our safety whilst ignoring that body’s recommendations?
November 8th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
The Chiefs of police are led by the chief of Toronto Police————————————, who’s boss it the mayor of Toronto. This moron abolished shooting ranges in Toronto because he didn’t think people should be on a bus with a pistol. Now they have to ride further on the bus.
Ask the Saskatchewan Association of Police Chiefs what they think of the registry.——————————————————————————–
November 8th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
re Fraser Nelund
Maybe you could find some facts as to why the Chiefs of Police want to maintain a Registry that is run on software designed and sold to the Federal Liberal Government.
Oh wait I think it is CGI and they fund the Chiefs of Police.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/616038
Published On Thu Apr 9 2009
At the 2008 conference in Montreal, Jones said he was further dismayed to learn delegates were being given free Céline Dion concert tickets, with half the aggregate cost of the tickets covered by a joint Bell Mobility-CGI-Group Techna donation of $115,000.
But that’s where the ethical line gets blurry, said Jones. “Once you’re into sponsorship, you’re into tricky territory.
“Generally, commercial enterprises do not operate altruistically. When they donate money, they expect there is something in return.”
November 9th, 2009 at 12:05 am
“——————————————————————————–”
What does that mean Rob
(November 8th, 2009 at 9:12 pm)
Can you also find for me some credible online evidence of what the Saskatchewan Association of Police Chiefs do think of the registry? A link possibly or, a quote from a newspaper [print edition] that I could then read for myself and decide how I will take that information in to consideration.
Were you around during the implementation of Bill C-68?
I was, and as a pro private property and pro privacy advocate i have come to understand where those that were (as I was) opposed to the legislation were led astray, outnumbered by and set back decades on rights that were fought for not by us but by others that appreciated liberty so much to the point of making the ultimate sacrifice, were indeed as the evidence nows shows missleading not only the general poulation as well as Parliament.
Those that worked so hard to hoodwink the population in our larger cities and then placed a strangle hold on Chretien’s causus are reported to be chomping at the bit preparing for a virtual round true in the House Of Commons.
Things change and is the case this time round the facts of the incedents that so tugged at everyone’s heart are this time going to come to the table.
Alison Regan this blog of yours is well written; I am sure you could show me some of the finer things regarding blog writing.
Why you are terrified can be explained further to yourself if you would just tell me why you feel so.
Please pay attention to the scheduled debates.
If still you can find, that when the situation is resolved or, partially rectified for lack of a better explanation, that you are still terrified I will greatly surprised.
“Let’s get down to it. If you are going to own a gun then you should be responsible enough to register it.”
Lines like that are so 90s.
“But honestly I just don’t care.”
That is soooooo immature.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:21 am
To Moderator
Madam/Sir
Could you please in the interest of education post this and my unrevised but later revisited first draught which thereis of this time a second draught.
Cheers
PS
If I write two more rough attempts tonight could someone offer a site where I could download a free spell checker application for my future use, if anyone finds a error or two in those entries, if they do that is get posted?
Second draught:
“——————————————————————————–”
What does that mean Rob
(November 8th, 2009 at 9:12 pm)
Can you also find for me some credible online evidence of what the Saskatchewan Association of Police Chiefs do think of the registry? A link possibly or, a quote from a newspaper [print edition] that I could then read for myself and decide how I will then take that information in to consideration.
Were you around during the implementation of Bill C-68?
I was, and as a pro-private property and pro-privacy advocate I have come to understand where those that were (as I was) opposed to the legislation got led astray; outnumbered by and, set back decades on rights that were fought for not by us but by others that appreciated liberty so much to the point of making the ultimate sacrifice, were indeed as the evidence now shows misleading not only the general poulation but as well Parliament.
Those that worked so hard to hoodwink the population in our larger cities convincing them that guns ar eveil and then placing a strangle hold on Chretien’s causus are reported to now be chomping at the bit preparing for a virtual round two in the House Of Commons.
Things change and is the case this time round the facts of the incedents that so tugged at everyone’s heart are this time going to come to the table.
Alison Regan this blog of yours is well written.
I am sure you could show me some of the finer things regarding hysterical acts of lucubratiousness. Sheeesh every Ryerson-like-dope with a keyboard and (no – one of them damned laptop things) a fear of freedoms can get the space to spout in this world.
Hey – I am here. Ain’t I?
Why you are terrified so, is I believe something that can be explained further to yourself, if just you would tell me why you do so feel terrified at the demise of a firearms registry.
Please pay attention to the scheduled debates.
If still you can find, that when the situation is resolved or, partially rectified for lack of a better explanation – it will never go away in your life time – that you are still terrified I will be greatly surprised.
“Let’s get down to it. If you are going to own a gun then you should be responsible enough to register it.”
Lines like that are so 90s.
“But honestly I just don’t care.”
That is soooooo immature.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Ha Ha LOL Canuck. try again. I jsut read what you wrote and maybe you should get a third draught ready?
Like I can see “poulation” “eveil” and some other stuff and things.
I Hate You!
November 9th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Alson Reagan Learns: “That comment is awaiting moderation.”
Oh well what could one expect finding treasures on Craig’s List? or was it….
Pussy Chickens!
November 9th, 2009 at 9:37 am
I caught only a snippet of the CBC coverage of Peter Van Loan’s performance but after reading Alison’s posting I caught up with the entire video. It’s obvious that Mr. Van Loan was uncomfortable with the truth about how long the government had had the report and it was clear that the report itself wasn’t worded in a way that would support dropping the long gun registry. When he finally revealed that the seemingly small 2.4 percentage of times information was sought specific to the long gun registry was not included in the report, the jig was up. Now we can understand why the information wasn’t released prior to the vote. The clever Conservative’s did not want parliamentarians to see the big 3.5 million numbers of enquiries made to the registry without the limiting context of the 2.4% number. But even if the report had included the smaller number it would not have been helpful to their cause. Because, if you do the math, that’s still 84,000 times that our police forces accessed information relating to long guns. You have to wonder how many lives that information saved. Thanks Alison for tweaking me to study this issue more closely.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Okay LOL teach me to break from my standard antiauthority bubble much, good point about the CGI, though I wonder, is there a gun lobby?
What good reason, aside from the price tag, is there for abolishing the gun registry? The price tag ought to be irrelevant to a government with a “tough on crime” agenda. “Tough on crime” policies are widely recognized to be the most ineffective and expensive ways of dealing with crime, by experts (Harper really hates experts, it’s a persistent pattern in his speeches). The government is willing to build prisons (a Supermax US style one is in the works in Ontario right now) to accomodate their urge to jail more citizens for longer and generally flood the criminal justice system (recall that 75% of politicians are lawyers) all at the taxpayers expense. When it comes to a computerized system for noting who has what gun they want to save money?
“the firearms registry of the Canadian gun-control program is costing less and being used more than ever by police” http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/722035–battle-heats-up-over-gun-registry
I love how the governing party thinks that only they have the right to cite statistics: “Some try to pacify Canadians with statistics” (Stephen Harper). That statement was made in defense of the crime policy I mentioned above, you know the one that experts in the field (as close to unanimously as you will find in the social sciences) abhorre, the one that increases recidivism rates. Given that the conservatives are interested in a debate (they must be, that is how reasonable people determine the best course of action) as Garry points out it is odd that Mr Van Loan chose to state a measly percentage instead of a whopping number in the high tens of thousands, and even this euphemistic truth was kept under raps.
“The RCMP could not confirm the minister’s statistic. ” (the star as above) Now this is a relatively liberal paper I am quoting but; what was the source of the statistic? I have failed in my own limited researching capacity to uncover it. I wish he had given it in the interview http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2009/11/scrum-theatre-who-wants-to-know-what-peter-van-loan-finds-interesting-about-the-firearms-commissione.html, I guess Mr Van Loan was too busy answering the reporters’ questions to say everything he wanted to. Anyhow it would be nice to know the source.
Referring to gun ownership as a liberty is misleading. Everything legal thing is a liberty. The debate is about the right to own unregistered guns. Big difference. The gun registry’s existence does not cost you the right to own a gun. Yes I agree that guns are not evil. I am sure though that every canuck will acknowledge that they are dangerous, even more dangerous than cars. The ownership of cars (to be fair I think this is provincial) is registered. So it’s not about freedom either. It’s about the inconvenience to certain voters.
The rural/urban divide looms strong on this issue, and I am ignorant city folk. Why do citizens need unregistered firearms?
What good reason aside from the false (in so many ways) price issue and the misplaced caterwauling about freedoms is there for abolishing the registry?
November 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Gary Parker Says:
“Because, if you do the math, that’s still 84,000 times that our police forces accessed information relating to long guns. You have to wonder how many lives that information saved.”
Yes, maybe you and the blog writer can wonder but, if you took the time to ask a Police Officer just what that meant, you would not even waste your efforts to come to the defense of such an unresearched and seemingly lame attempt by the blog writer at convincing those not already so brainwashed as to believe the lies that are sold as fact by the gun banners, as to what a “hit” is code for, amoungst members.
A “hit” is what the registry records every time an Peace Officer checks to see if there is any outstanding warrant for the person they are interviewing – whether that person is a car driver or an inebriated party-goer gone astray finding themself in the cruiser or held under investigation by a patrol person on a bicycle.
Does the blog writer honestly think that the Police in Canada trust a sham of a registry that is finally now on the way out?
You should more than thank Alison for tweaking your interest to study this issue more closely. You should actually look for some facts that are not the rehashing of the same old trickery used in the first place by the folks that have never taken time to read the Magna Charta.
Full disclosure.
I know many people that have never registered themselves or their private property. If they are pulled over and a check by a Peace Officer is run on them, do you suppose the registry records a “hit”? Yes it does.
If they are one of the 84,000 that they, the Police, are targetting for further investigation does the “hit” reveal they own a firearm?
Well does it?
Does the peace officer then understand that the person they are investigating does not own a firearm?
Maybe you – Gary Parker – are lost?
Take a closer look at your compass.
See yourself in the mirrror?
I thought so.
You truly are lost.
Of those 84,000 persons that were indeed investigated [you can believe that too if you want but, personally I find everything after the original lies told by the Coalition for Gun Control and assorted hangers on to be skeptical of everything from then - not worthy of belief] based on what would be an alleged transgression maybe you – Gary Parker – could find for us all the percentage of those that were actually followed up with a pertinent charge and, then convicted of an offense of some kind.
Hold off on your interpretations of facial reactions and body language when viewing the Tories of today whilst on screen. They are masters at playing for the camera and as time will show, they are holding back evidence that not only the Police in the highest offices are aware of but, evidence that will be brought to the table when the committees are held in sessions.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
re
Fraser Nelund November 9th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
“What good reason aside from the false (in so many ways) price issue and the misplaced caterwauling about freedoms is there for abolishing the registry?”
Great question Fraser Naslund.
For brevity sake I will reword your query and pare it down to something even more basic so as other people might understand it better by my rephrasing it as such:
“What good reason is there for abolishing the gun registry?
I refuse to answer that question at this time. But I pose this question to you:
What was the reason for creating it in the first place?
November 9th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Canuck,
The moderators do not revise comments as I’ve already explained to you. However, we will not tolerate personal attacks and profanity. If you want to have a debate attack arguments, not people.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Tamir Birk
Since when does “Pussy Chicken” become a “profanity”?
And if you are alluding to my posting under a different name – a name similar to the blog writer – merely an effort on my part to see what was allowed on your site, directed at the blog host (or more so correctly these “Moderators” you refer to, as an “attack” on anyone – somebody must have the thinest skin on the planet.
Or you wish to protect the feelings of those that write a blog in the adult world and then read it and the resultant posts in reply, all the while hoping for no confrontation after having written what is amateuristic at best and, ludicrous by definition in the blogoshere, by any standard.
Which makes me wonder. Why would you post anything in relation to what I have written you – Not The Writer of The Blog – if you have not allowed others to see what I wrote?
And you know what I wrote because I am aware that if I include the same email address whilst using various posting names a clue has been given you as to what the game is.
Surely you are aware of ISPs? The number assigned to each and every computor online accessing the internet through those servers.
Ever heard of a Proxy Server?
Before I would, or in this case could, hope to debate posters on a site that advertises for citizens to come aboard, might the Host (or moderators) have experience other than that of molly coddleing the learners that want to play hardball with my inherent rights.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
The reason for creating the registry in the first place was the shooting of 14 innocent people at Ecole Poly. in Montreal in 1989. It was created as a reaction to show people that the government was taking the safety of its citizens seriously.
But I really came on line to simply express the fact that reading the comments on this particular blog has provided me some entertainment. Canuck – you ask valid questions, but you constantly attack equally valid answers. The beauty of this country is that everybody is allowed an opinion, and you can disagree with it all you want. My opinion put very simply is:
Abolishing the gun registry for strictly financial reasons is ridiculous because it is such a small amount of money to be saved. The gun registry has been acknowledged as a useful tool by law enforcement – people that we as a society trust – and it would seem to me that the only people that are complaining are those who own guns.
Put it this way – rifles and shotguns are used for sport and you have to pay to register them. It’s no different than my street bike. Both are simply for enjoyment, could kill you or somebody else if they are used inappropriately and present an inherent amount of risk to the user. I don’t complain about registering my street bike, my boat or my snowmobile.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
And Canuck – don’t use my name to make posts
November 9th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Canuck,
Your comment in which you said “Pussy Chicken” was not modified. If you look you will see ALL your comments appear on the website without any edits or revision. So your claims that I do not allow others to see what you have written are simply false. Your attempts to use different names are pointless as ALL comments thus far have been approved. Furthermore, our CMD operates in a way that immediately approves all comments that are not spam. Errors do occur, and some comments are listed as “awaiting moderation” when the CMD mistakenly identifies a comment as spam.
So, there is no “game” being played. I don’t have time for games.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Ok Alison……….let me chime in here if I might.
Two years ago the registry was said to be used 2000 times per day.
Last year it was up to 5000 times per day.
Now…..it is quoted at 100000 times per day.
You could say from a mathematical perspective that it is almost exponential in nature. So lets run with that for a moment.
Based upon that premise………shall we agree that the registry is checked 100,000,000,000 times per second.
It would appear from your writing above that you would take that use as clear evidence that the registry was worth keeping. However that is where you would be wrong.
Use of the registry system is worthless data and was recognized as such by Sheila Frasier.
What would be of interest is what the tangible results are of these uses. What is actually achieved from these uses.
To that there are no answers. Why you would naturally ask. To which the answer is an astounding……because the RCMP elected not to collect such data. That should give you and idea as to what value they really think of it.
Then of course there is the report by Maryantonett Flumian who completed an exhaustive investigation on the efficacly of the gun law in terms of a cost benefit perspective. I would love to be able to discuss that doccument with you…..
However I cannot…..why.?
Well it seems that as soon as Paul Martin saw the doccument he had it declared a “cabinet secret” and it has been sealed for 50 years.
Now what on earth would bring them to take such action?
November 9th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Alison Regan Says
“And Canuck – don’t use my name to make posts”
Canuck says: He didn’t.
Tamir Birk Says:
A whole bunch of stuff.
Depending on when a poster checks in maybe or no something they have written may or maybe no will be seen. But in the meantime they can receive a friendly email that explains everything but that the CMD has programming errors. Then after the poster has been belittled in front of the audience, like magic the missing posts that were the topic of alleged “attacks” and “profanity” – by someone (or now it appears a computor generated responser huminoid like thingee – a CGRHLK if you will) – just like that appear.
And forever more if not for this back and forth between me and some human machine cross the date and time make it appear as if what I was wrongly accused of (there never was as was alleged earlier, any profanity used byself or, any attacks by me ,on any one aftrerall) was for some reason or other posted in the end.
Tamir Birk Says:
“So, there is no “game” being played. I don’t have time for games.”
Canuck Says:
Maybe your CMD needs to be modified so as to not moderate in a non molly coddleing way!
Canuck is tired of seeing that Canuck “Says” so
Canuck Writes:
Alison you stopped by to see if there was any response to your writing.
You then state:
“Put it this way – rifles and shotguns are used for sport and you have to pay to register them.”
Now tell me please how I would post on here my opinion that would state that what you just answered is a complete lie, without being caught out by the sites CGRHLK?
Should I stop typing now and click “Submit Comment” only to come back in four hours to see the arrow thing or whatever it is going round round round and a sentence saying “your comment is waiting for approval by a moderator” or some such other statement?
Or should I explain, but wait, if I explain that you have made a completely false statement I will according you, I will have what was it? attacked your answer.
There is and has been an amnesty in effect for quite some time now. People that actually have studied this marvelously constructed facade labelled C-68 gun registry follow the facts as they unfold.
It does not cost anything monitarily at this time to possess a registered firearm. Anyone that is buying a firearm at this time has already gone through the hoops allowing them to as like not before go out and purchase a handgun also. The small fee they may pay to register a firearm at that time if there is any is of no consequence to them or anyone else for that matter.
At the outset a firearm owner that was handed down a piece of private property if wishing to legally maintain ownership of said private property was ordered by threat of criminal conviction to firstly aquire a license and secondly then pay a fee for each and every piece of private property then deemed dangerous and a threat to society by some off the handle do-gooders that yanked Allan Rock’s and the Party of Liberals Federally chain in Ottawa.
Sometimes if the big picture is looked at some writers could grasp the fact when mentioning “the insignificant cost to owner of” and the “miniscule administration dollar outlay” that the figures mean nothing if they the writer could understood that if things were following along on time and on scheduled as set out by by the framers of C-68 all firearms owners that weren’t disarmed by now would be paying about $5000 per collection save for the intervention of more level headed folks in Ottawa that are pulling the bad law edict apart bit by bit and strangleing systematically the bogus save-us-from-ourselves sham of a Chretien vote-winning-scheme until they have a majority government in Ottawa if and when then, the whole thing will be revisited and along with handgun registry tossed in the circular file once and for all.
The registry would be reaping a huge windfall and dollar profit in the millions no Kabillions if not for the Tories in Ottawa.
Plus the efforts of some gun owners to disobey the misled authorities through civil disobedience and selective cramming of antiquated systems designed to be followed blindly by those foolish enough to have faith in a bad law.
Sometimes creating something as a reaction to show people that the government is taking the safety of its citizens seriously is not the way to go.
Having lived through the Mother of all C-68 debates already and having read some of the news since then that never seems to conclude, take it from those that know better – a registry of guns has not as its purpose anything to do with public safety.
The recording of stories of those people that have lived under a system where guns were registered and then confiscated are available online. Search: “Tyranny” + “Gun Registry”
The times change and, yes we do as a society, have little to fear now. But if for belief sake you think your safety is in any way compromised by someone owning a unregistered gun might I suggest the blog writing be left well enough alone.
One last point.
Alison Regan writes:
“rifles and shotguns are used for sport”
Come on Alison Regan, put on your thinking cap. Can you think of anything else they could be used for?
November 9th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Alison, try to claim anything as valid requires a little bit of proof. Arguing purely emotionally is ridiculous when trying to determine if legislation is warranted or not.
The fact is, every firearm owner, whether the gun is registered or not, MUST have a valid PAL license. EVERY single one. That means that the long gun registry is dependent on people who already have valid firearms owning licenses to register their guns. The police still do not have any power of search and seizure of people who own less than 10 guns, so that point is invalid as well. As easily as they can run a registry check on an address, they can run a PAL check, so that point is invalid. It goes on and on.
The only thing that the registry IS good for is to appease people who think that “something” should have been done after the Montreal shooting or other school shootings or for gun crime in general. Any other supposed reason, is covered by the PAL licensing, which I’ll say again, is MANDATORY for anybody who owns a firearm (of any kind).
While it may not make you comfortable, for reasons unknown, to see the disbanding of the gun registry, you can bet it will makes things a lot more comfortable for your fellow millions of gun-owning Canadians, who by the way, have never committed any sort of crime (background check) and are mostly extremely responsible with their guns.
Your statement — “Since 1989 there have been over 60 school shootings in the United States, most notably Columbine School in Littleton, CO which was conducted with a collection of rifles, shotguns and handguns and left 13 people dead, and Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va which was conducted with handguns and left 33 people dead.”
How would stricter gun laws stop this? A registry stops crimes like these in absolutely ZERO way. There will forever be guns available both legally or not for people who want to get them. Unless, of course, you are arguing abolishing them. If you want to see what a society looks like where civilians have been stripped of any rights to bear arms, take a look at Britain where gun control has left nobody but criminals with any offense/defense and their crime rate has skyrocketed.
Note: I am not a Conservative. I used to proudly vote for the NDP until I realized what true disarmament really means. Now I’ll still do it, but not happily. Also, I deliberately left out using hard numbers to prove the invalidity of the Long Gun Registry and real registered guns in crimes numbers. I thought it would be unfair since you didn’t bother in your article.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Canuck,
I apologize if you feel belittled, as you mentioned. I was simply trying to explain the reason for the confusion and I didn’t appreciate being accused of governing the comments section of this website like a “Big Brother” character from George Orwell’s 1984. Modifying comments would contradict the reason I founded this website which was to create a platform for all Canadians to share and discuss their opinions, and I appreciate the fact that you have done so.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
As a physician, I cannot see the value in a registry that is incomplete and useless against what I deal with in the ER – which is the humanity. I think we should register all the whack jobs, depressed locos, piss-poor-protoplasmic excuses for humans that use guns as tools of oppression, destruction, and intimidation. There is not one single reliable statistically significant instance of the registry actually saving a life – I save lives – the registry does not! And finally if guns cause crime, then my wife’s and mine are all defective because they have yet to jump out of the and hurt someone, least of all our 3 kids!
Dr.Oz
November 9th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
G. Owner writes:
“The fact is, every firearm owner, whether the gun is registered or not, MUST have a valid PAL license. EVERY single one.”
Coo Coo.
Coo Coo
Coo Coo
What time is it?
Time for G.Owner to understand their are some people he may not have thought of.
Maybe some people that own firearms that they have never even for one moment thought of getting a PAL for.
Oh I’m sorry can you excuse me for a second I have a call coming in with the 416 exchange showing up. Probably some marketer or something. No wait – it says: G. Banger
Hello.
Yes this is Canuck. No I do not want to to buy your unregistered gun. Good Bye.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Quote “Sorry, but that is scary stuff. I don’t have statistics on how the change in long-gun homicides have changed in Canada, no real numbers, but according to the Coalition for Gun Control, suicides and murders of women have decreased.”
If you don’t have the stats to check what the CGC is stating then find them. Policy is being shaped by what they are preaching and they are not giving Canadians all the facts to make informed decisions.
Information is available on the Department Of Justice website. A few points I found after only spending a few minutes looking for them after reading your commentary.
1. Number of suicides in Canada per year has remained almost the same since the early 70’s. Some years it’s higher, other years is lower. This is what the CGC doesn’t want you to know. Approximately the same numbers of people kill themselves each year, but instead of using firearms they hang themselves, overdose, slash their wrists etc. Proves not one life has been saved by the 2 Billion plus price tag of the registry.
Now how many suicide prevention programs could 2B plus have financed?
2. Murders of Woman have decreased. Guess what, same as above. Approximately same number each year. Some years it’s higher, other years it’s lower. Instead of using firearms they are killed in other ways, horrible to say the least but the facts don’t support the CGC arguments regarding the registry anymore.
There is too much information available now to dispute the CGC claims on how the 2B, and rising, is cost effective at saving lives.
There is better ways of spending tax payers’ money to help all Canadians and in the economic times our country is facing we need a better bang for our bucks.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:07 am
Dr.Oz Writes
on November 9th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
When referring to the what I trust is safe and proper storage of the family firearms [I mean really, the guy is a Doctor - for Krisake] combatively and somewhat in a tradational Doctorly mode, kinda condescending in his own way but he has the Letters to do just that mind you, alluding to the well known mantra that goes something like this:
The Gun is an inanimate object and as such could not possibly ever on its own if left in its original state firstly, load itself (after manufacturing and distribution takes place of course) then secondly, discharge in a manner that would take a life. Any life.
So it goes: “then my wife’s and mine are all defective because they have yet to jump out of the ……………
“yet to jump out of the …………….
Yes, Yes. I knew it.
I know people like the Good Doctor.
Smart move on Oz’s part.
He already made what possibly is now known to have become a silly decision to apparently register his and his family’s private property – don’t want to follow that up by having already made available though the online shopping list contained in the registry’s tight-as-something-unbelievably-loose tech wizardly security measures, the actual location in the dwelling where unimaginable jumpers-out-of are stored.
Is it a known fact yet that the Police in Toronto have allegedly used a recent break and enter incedent where firearms were stolen from the owner of the residence to make a point in defense of their what some are calling a “Constitutional test like none other this Nation has before ever seen with following reverberations that will be felt from sea to sea to sea as pertaining to [the Police Force in Toronto] alleged Gestapo like tactics as practiced by those Hell bent on rigging the system to make them look good in Miller’s eyes”?
Huh.
Well now you know.
It will be interesting to see where the criminals learned of the collection in question.
That is if The Chief and his cohorts ever managed to get enough time away form their lavishly sponsered outings coutesy of CGI to actually aprehend the crooks, instead of their usual allegedly [and now well know fact of pushing the Highest Court in the land to have a better gander at their practices as a result of] and follow through with really really nice and polite Lefty interogation of what some have referred to as gang bangers out on the town, visions of newly aquired steel and the smell of cordite in their heads, thusly having some pertinent information on hand that can be folded legal size wise in a dosier to be later delivered to their lawyers as to have something on offer from them to The Crown?
Two days hacking and sawing and no, no they never, they never used explosives did they?
Just to get to in to the collection’s vault.
Sorry, but that is scary stuff. I don’t have any idea if any of that is true or if it will affect the debate shaping up soon but, Jan, Kyle, and Pansy too – registered gun owners all yet damned uncertain about it now, at some blog somewhere mentioned something like that and according to someone somewhere else that has watched the Coalition for Gun Control work its mystical routine on the federal liberals of old, for quite some time now – Wendy Cukier surely must now be in the contemplative mood.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Well I see some changes are under way as we read and write.
The placement of the words throughout any given line has improved.
Good thing.
What with my feelings taking a beating due to what has become obvious for all to view some sort of time delay anti-spamming glitch combined with an as otherwise genuinely respectful host making amends for such, I could not imagine anything more hurtful then to have to from now on get confused spacially (is that the right term Doc?) when only four words are divided out to fill one whole space area designed for a longer sentence.
FIGHT THE POWER.
OH YEAH!
November 10th, 2009 at 6:22 am
Stormbringer Says on:
November 9th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
“Then of course there is the report by Maryantonett Flumian who completed an exhaustive investigation on the efficacly of the gun law in terms of a cost benefit perspective. I would love to be able to discuss that doccument with you…..
However I cannot…..why.?
Well it seems that as soon as Paul Martin saw the doccument he had it declared a “cabinet secret” and it has been sealed for 50 years.
Now what on earth would bring them to take such action?”
What.
No I don’t really have much to “say” about that. I suppose I could check somewhere to see if that is correct – something being sealed by Martin for fifty years – but I just got this sneaky suspicion there is more to that.
Look, let me make myself perfectly clear.
At no time would this have ever been able to happen if Martin were given the Prime Ministership and not left to languish on the front bench after being given a righted economic rosy outlook and being so fortunate as to be flush with funds from the set of books using the Mulroney Tories’ hated GST bonanza combined with the increases in deductions he imposed on employers and employees to, ah, well.
Look let me make myself perfectly clear.
There is something about this posting name Strombringer that needs to be further looked in to.
“Maryantonette”?
Yup. Sure. Right. Uh-Huh. Tell me another one!
Stormbringer
Comin’ out of nowhere
Drivin’ like rain
Stormbringer dance
On the thunder again
Dark cloud gathering
Breaking the day
No point running
‘Cause it’s coming your way
Ride the rainbow
Crack the sky
Stormbringer coming
Time to die
Got to keep running
Stormbringer coming
He’s got nothing you need
He’s gonna make you bleed
Rainbow shaker
On a stallion twister
Bareback rider
On the eye of the sky
Stormbringer coming down
Meaning to stay
Thunder and lightning
Heading your way
Ride the rainbow
Crack the sky
Stormbringer coming
Time to die
Got to keep running
Stormbringer coming
He’s got nothing you need
He’s gonna make you bleed
Coming out of nowhere
Drivin’ like a-rain
Stormbringer dance
On the thunder again
Dark cloud gathering
Breaking the day
No point running
‘Cause it’s coming your way
Sorry, but that is scary stuff………………..
November 10th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Paul Martin WAS the PM when good old Maryantonett Flumian conducted her review.
From all accounts she was a very apt public official and is now in a very high profile position as Deputy head of Service Canada She actually took the time to travel across Canada and spoke to “stakeholders” which amazingly included gun owners (something that the Liberals or PCs under Kim never bothered to do).
Here is some good data.
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=891898&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=37&Ses=2
Oh and my Stormbringer Moniker comes from the Elric Series.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Thanks Stormbringer
November 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Yes we should do something about mrderes and vilent offenders and anyone else that uses a gun or any type of weapon for that matter…..BUT!!!! In the U.K. they took away all guns and stabbings increased to the same rate and beyond of gun crimes, AND when they took away all the knives the Bad guys started using things like sharpened re-bar with cloth wrapped handles….hmmmm glad that registry worked out so well
OH and FT. Hood glad the registry of guns stopped that guy from loosing his mind and causing a major trajedy!
Wake up people the Gun registry was a violation of gun owners rights and privacy and does NOTHING to stop gun crime…don’t argue it ..IT DOES NOTHING!!
Criminals will be criminals and if one comes to my house or street I may not have a gun but they better hope I don’t get theirs the registry wont stop me from taking out a gun totting criminal with my bare hands or whatever I might find handy
hmm maybe we should register people too…OH wait they have a chip out that is linked to a sattelite so people can have it injected into their body or childrens body and then we can see where they are at all times…
Hmmm wonder how long until that is “voluntary”?
You people are sheep
and if you don’t stand up for yourselves
you’ll all be led to the slaughter
dont go blindly
November 11th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
now what abuot people that wont to hunt thiers ohters that use guns for hunting what are going take thier guns a way
November 12th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
AND when they took away all the knives the Bad guys started using things like sharpened re-bar with cloth wrapped handles.
yes especially in Scotland
November 17th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Thanks for ensuring that I never visit this site again. I find it rather odd that this site is called “informed voter” and it has such an uninformed article on it with so much fear mongering, misinformation and outright falsities.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/725099
November 17th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Gun owners face a similar plight
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/726505
November 18th, 2009 at 1:10 am
http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/search/article/857076
November 18th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
The gun debate issue is not as published , between Rural/Urban population. It is definitely one of Urban people who wish to own fire arms without government control, and of course a few Rural folks as well.
Canada’s population (2001) Rural=20.4%….Urban=79.6%…
Only in the district of Nunavut does the Rural population exceed that of Urban.
When we look at our three major prairie provinces we find the following….Rural=27.8%…Urban=72.1%, as such this indicates were the majority of weapons are now located.
Let us approach the subject from this aspect!
November 18th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
g clarke,
What are you writing about?
Have a look at this article published recently. http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20091109.MACGREGOR09ART2249/TPStory/TPComment/
I don’t know if it will bolster your arguement here or, prove that what you have written is false.
But the one thing I think you and I could agree on is your statement:
“It is definitely one of Urban people who wish to own fire arms without government control” and I know some of those people are carrying unregisted firearms coming across the border – bought with money tainted by illicit drug sales – and usually found at or near the scene of the shootings in our larger metropolitan centres.
Those guns are surely owned by city folk. They are definitely most times, if not all times, never registered.
Why I bet some of those owners never even received a PAL!
Huh, I’ll raise that bet and wager on top of it too, that some of those owners never even put in for a PAL!
November 19th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
The POL, PAL & FAC is a source the RCMP can use to access info about the gun owner. To have a long gun registration in my opinion is another way to get more revenue out of the honest tax payer
December 10th, 2009 at 10:03 am
It seems that every time I read/see a blog, article or or other form of commentary on the abolishing of the long gun registry it quotes the 3.2 million (number changes with the reporting) that the police check the registry. Think about it people. If the police were checking it in relation to a crime having been committed this country would look and sound like a WW2 movie! A routine traffic stop creates a hit on the data base. The registry is so full of errors that any information taken from it is suspect anyway!
December 17th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Alison, you obviously don’t own guns, or use guns. I’ll go out on a limb and say you probably live in a major city and far from a place that guns are used regularly and for the most part safely. It is pretty hard to convince law abiding Canadian citizens that their guns are a threat to Canadian society. Mind you the average Canadian doesn’t live in Toronto in fear of being a victim of some gang banger (who most likely is economically disadvantaged) from Jane and Finch or Scarborough. The question here isn’t long guns but illegal handguns. Thats ILLEGAL handguns. Hundreds of Canadians own and use legal handguns everyday and do not pose a threat to their fellow citizens. I am truely sorry that ‘you are appalled that this bill looks set to pass, as it has made it through its second reading and is heading to committee.’ Maybe it is time for you to get on the internet and find yourself a country that doesn’t allow guns and move there. As for Canadians who want to own guns and not have to register them (long guns) as handguns have had to be registered since 1935, being told they should move to Texas, well Canadians are now trying to right a wrong and abolish the longgun registry as it just is a waste of time and money. Oh, yeah before I forget, I have been a peace officer for 8 years so far. Merry Christmas.
January 4th, 2010 at 11:52 am
the long gun “Registry” is not what is saving lives, the proper storage requirements are.
As it was pointed out repeatedly, every time a cop checks a lic plate, a hit goes to the long gun registry.
I have dealt with guns most of my life, my grandfather taught me how to handle one, in a typically irish manner, if it was pointed in the wrong direction i got a cuff up side the head lol… i presently live east of Toronto, for most of life i lived in northern BC. Guns must be stored properly, I honestly believe, that if a gun is improperly stored, and someone uses it, for a suicide attempt, for crime or a kid playing with it and hurts themselves or someone else, the owner should be locked up and the key should be thrown away. Putting my name or someone elses name in a data base is not stopping anyone from using the damn weapon, locking the thing up, locking up the ammunition, putting it out of casual reach is what is saving lives. I might add, since the implementation of this law, I have seen far more attacks with baseball bats and knives then ever before.
Lets face it people, guns dont kill people, people kill people. If a gun is not available, then they will use something else.
I have to ask, whats next, registering knives, baseball bats, etc etc….??
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Hi. Very nice Blog. Not really what i have searched over Google, but thanks for the information. Can you email me back, please. Thanks so much.
March 8th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
The gun registry is an appeasement tool and serves no real purpose in preventing crime.
March 8th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
“But honestly I just don’t care. If you want to own a gun and don’t want to register it – move to Texas.”
Honestly, I don’t care either. If you want to live in a totalitarian society move to China or Britain for that matter.
The Great Canadian Divide. Liberty and Democracy vs Socialism and Dictatorship. West vs East.
The priority on change should be the establishment of a border between Eastern and Western Canada.
PS There is nothing wrong with Texas. Good Liberty Loving people, self -sufficient and proud. Beats the hell out of Ontario!
March 24th, 2010 at 2:37 am
Looking through your own fears, I go along that we would need to all undertake much more caution of our-self.